Tale of Two Sermons
दो उपदेशो की कहानी("जी आई गुरजेफ " द्वारा लिखित) (Mar 25, 2013)मुझे आपको बताना चाहिए कि हमारे संघ में २ बहुत ही बूढ़े भाई रहते है, एक का नाम है अली भाई और दुसरे का सेज़ भाई। इन दोनों भाइयो ने क्रमश हमारे सभी मठो पर जाने का और देवत्व के विभिन्न पहलुओं को समझाने का दायित्व लिया है। हमारे संघ के ४ मठ है- एक हमारा, एक पामीर कि घाटी में, तीसरा तिब्बत में और चौथा भारत में। और इसलिए अली भाई और सेज़ भाई लगातार एक मठ से दुसरे मठ जाते और सीखाते रहते है।
वे हमारे पास साल में २ बार आते है। उनका हमारे मठ आना बहुत बड़ी घटना मानी जाती है। उन दिनों जब उनमे से कोई भी एक हमारे बीच होता है तो हम सभी की आत्मा को एक स्वर्गीय कोमलता और ख़ुशी महसूस होती है। इन दोनों भाईओं के उपदेश, जो दोनों ही बराबर पवित्र है, और एक जैसा सत्य बोलते है , सभी भाईओं पर और खासकर मुझपर अलग ही प्रभाव करते है।
जब सेज़ भाई बोलते है, तो बेशक स्वर्ग से परिंदो के गाने की आवाज़ लगती है , वह जो कहते है उससे हर इंसान करीब करीब खुल जाता है , जैसे कि मुग्ध हो गया हो। उनका उपदेश एक नहर कि तरह बहती है और कोई भी इंसान सेज़ भाई कि आवाज़ सुनने के अलावा ज़िन्दगी में और कुछ नहीं चाहता। किन्तु अली भाई के भाषण का उल्टा ही प्रभाव पड़ता है। अपनी बूढी उम्र के कारण वह बुरी तरह और अस्पष्टता से बोलते है। कोई नहीं जानता वे कितने साल के है। सेज़ भाई भी काफी बूढ़े है, पर वे काफी तंदरूस्त लगते है, जबकि अली भाई में बुढ़ापे के कारण कमज़ोरी साफ़ दिखाई देती है।
सेज़ भाई के भाषण का जितना मज़बूत छाप श्रोता पर सुनते है, उतना ही वह छाप धीरे धीरे उड़ते जाता है जबतक श्रोता के भीतर बिलकुल भी वह छाप शेष न बचे। लेकिन अली भाई के मामले में भले ही पहले सुनते वक्त लगभग कोई छाप नहीं रहता, धीरे धीरे उनके भाषण का सार एक निश्चित रूप लेता है , और हर दिन थोडा थोडा करके हमारे हृदय के भीतर पूरा डल जाता है और सदैव के लिए बस जाता है।
जब हम इस बात से जागरूक होते है और इसका विश्लेषण करते है कि ऐसा क्यों हुआ, तो हम सब इस निष्कर्ष पर पहुंचे कि जो उपदेश सेज़ भाई देते थे, वे उनके दिमाग से निकलते थे और हमारे दिमाग पर असर करते थे, जबकि अली भाई के उपदेश उनके स्वयं से निकलते थे और हमारे स्वयं पर काम करते थे।
हाँ, अध्यापक, ज्ञान और समझ बहुत ही भिन्न है , केवल समझ ही हमे स्वयं तक ले जा सकता है , जबकि ज्ञान उसमे केवल एक गुजरने वाला छण है।
"मीटिंग विथ रिमार्केबल मेन " में "जी आई गुरजेफ " द्वारा लिखित
SEED QUESTIONS FOR REFLECTION: How do you understand the difference between knowledge and understanding? Can you share a personal story that illustrates the difference? How can we move from knowledge to understanding, from knowing to being?
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13 Past Reflections
On Apr 4, 2013 artmusedog and Carol wrote :
Knowledge is information ~ wisdom is being and living the knowledge learned over a life time.
1 reply: Vin | Post Your Reply
On Mar 26, 2013 amy wrote :
If 100 Brothers (for example) were to give an identical, "scripted sermon", I'd be willing to bet, a single listener would get 100 different "understandings" from that singe message. In my opinion, "the word" and it's "speaker" commingle. One cannot separate one from the other!
The delivery and reception of a message passes through a variety of very personal channels before it exits a mouth and enters an ear! A mind, a heart, a spirit, a personality, an energy, a degree of passion, a reality, a level of knowledge, an understanding, an experience and (of course) the DNA . . . of the speaker AND the listener . . . all play out in "the processing".
Always Love . . . Enjoyed the article!
1 reply: Thierry | Post Your Reply
On Mar 26, 2013 tryng wrote :
I don't believe the problem is with the speakers but with the listeners it's through focus and reflection that we can internalize both messages..While a younger brother can motivate , move us,and touch our hearts instantly,because the older is more difficult to understand and not as flowing with his words we're forced to really concentrate ,While we gain knowledge through both it's through internalizing we gain understanding
1 reply: Sousa | Post Your Reply
On Mar 26, 2013 SoUSa wrote :
Knowledge is the "know how".....but only through applying the "know-how" consistently comes understanding. Understanding leads to experiences that teach the soul and renew and shift the perspective of the mind/consciousness.Inresult man develops growth- wisdom. Wisdom ONLY comes from knowledge applied. The old man ever speaking but not of any effect, he speaks of knowledge he does not truly understand. Also, He is speaking not for others but or self gain. To try and "prove" he is wise. Thus his words sounds complicated to the listening ear and truly fades from the listeners mind all together.
The older man that spoke as a singing bird that made such impact, He was speaking from his personal experiences that gave him understanding......so he spoke of true wisdom that not only brought him to the place of the gifts he developed over time, he truly had the "know- how" that made him wise. (experien... [View Full Comment]
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On Mar 25, 2013 Edit Lak wrote :
I read this yesterday and didn’t think much about it, it’s nice and that’s all that I thought. Today I was doing my thing when this story popped into my head. The author told us, G.I. Gurdjieff took us on his journey to narrate to us - ‘us’. He told us; “Yes, professor, knowledge and understanding are quite different. Only understanding can lead us to being whereas knowledge is but a passing presence in it” The two old men/brethren went and delivered sermons in their own way, in their own experienced way - Neither wrong, just living and sharing their experiences, to some it was understood and to others it wasn’t, only because, there either ether or ‘or’ are the levels of our existence of experience, some choose to go and see, live and experience, cutting the cross roads of life without boundaries or following others paths, and some venture into some things when ready, all a personal preference of self , so taking or not... [View Full Comment]
1 reply: Vin | Post Your Reply
On Mar 23, 2013 david doane wrote :
I think the real difference is between knowledge and wisdom. I don't see knowledge and understanding as being very different from one another, as both of them are left brain cognitive activities. The author apparently thinks of understanding as I think of wisdom, so perhaps our differences are just a matter of word usage. As I see it, it is wisdom that leads us to being. Someone said there are three levels of communication, that is, head to head, heart to heart, and soul to soul. As I see it, knowledge and understanding are head endeavors, and wisdom is a heart and soul endeavor that can be expressed through the head thus making it a whole person activity. I think we move from the cognitive level to the deeper levels by way of opening at all three levels in speaking and in listening, ie, open mind, open heart, and open soul. When someone's presence has acted on my whole being it's because the person was expressing from his who... [View Full Comment]
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On Mar 23, 2013 Beelzebub wrote :
The context is that of two equally holy men giving a sermon on aspects of divinity. Both very old, yet one vigorous, the other fragile. I am tempted to see in these two figures metaphors for personality and essence. I seem to remember that, from the author's perspective, the problem is that personality tends to develop at the expense of essence, being. One is over developed, the other atrophied. Both knowledge and being are pictured as holy men by G.
One is grounded in memory and can use words, thought eloquently. It can communicate but does'nt penetrate the essence of things and often mistakes the word for the thing. It is entertaining, as words, concepts and images tend to be but doesn't leave a deep imprint on the listener. It is of the mind and and only speaks to the mind.
The other doesn't define, judge and conclude but observes and notices the discreet, the subtle. He can penetrate the essence of things and can see, sense t... [View Full Comment]
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On Mar 22, 2013 Conrad P. Pritscher wrote :
Thank you for the opportunity to respond. I think we can move from knowledge to understanding, from knowing to being by being present, by being compassionate,and by being open while knowing one knows very little if anything.
Knowledge often relates to remembering whereas understanding allows one to be open and not know, as well as allows one to forgive everyone and everything, including forgiving oneself again, and again, and again.
I don't recall the source but I recall reading someone saying an early root of the meaning of understanding related to forgiving. A personal story relates to the notion of functional discontinuity which is a condensation of the thinking of 10 or 12 other people such as John Dewey, Margaret Mead, Albert Einstein. Related to functional discontinuity, is the notion that a teacher (not only a trainer), instead of telling students what the students should know, provides a discontinuity, a discrepancy that the s... [View Full Comment]