My Misgivings About Advice

I am repeatedly moved by this and other reminders of how easy it is to violate the soul of another being by casually give advice, and how normal it is in most conditioned societies! In my silent meditation practice, many times followed by walking meditation, I practice being the conscious observer, slowing things down. I will use that practice to be mindful in such situations. And I remember our son since childhood would clearly tell us "Don't tell me what to do!" That's a good reminder too!

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This is such an important concept but takes skill to learn to do. As we allow others to feel their feelings and be ok being uncomfortable we allow them to process, be curious about their situation and then truly be able to move forward without feeling shame. Instead of trying to fix them and trying to help them feel comfortable, we allow them to be ok in the messiness. They learn that they can figure it out.

I have been fortunate to have people who were able to witness my pain and allow me space to give it voice. This has been a most healing experience.

I served as a nurse listening, listening and listening - holding space for people to share their pain. I have memories though of times I gave advice (where it felt right) in a way of suggestion and opening for discussion to facilitate holding a space for the families I worked with as a health visitor to find their voices and share.

Why is so hard to simply listen attentively to someone?

I so appreciated the quote and thought of it as I Listened to a book called Speaking Peace. We often do not know our needs. The statement about our soul needing to be heard exactly as it seems to be the key. Inside of LOVE the soul knows how to heal itself. Unconditional Love.

I can see how I choose or like to talk to friends that do more of listening to me than trying to give me advice. When someone in the past has thrown unsolicited advice to me when im going through a difficult time it’s frustrating. I have a friend who has learned to just listen to me and let me vent and I do the same for her. It feels very good and safe.

I believe it is different from one person to another in regard to wanting to be witnessed or to be advised/fixed. I prefer to receive advice from the person listening to me in my time of struggling. I don’t really have a personal story for when I was witnessed or when I witnessed. I can simply say that during many years of my own therapy, my therapist often practiced witnessing. My best friend and I practice witnessing as we both struggle with anxiety and depression. With the type of person I am, I find it easy to be a witness during intense suffering of others.

This has hit home for me being depressed myself as well as around others who are depressesed, anxious or grieving. I have felt powerless if not able to fix or help them yet I relate to it making me feel worse when others tried to "help" me. I now desire to know the feeling of being truly present and witnessing others' pain or suffering knowing this is a moment of strength not a moment of powerlessness. Thank you for helping me see differently, forever.

As someone that has faced depression in my own life, I can relate to the experience the author describes. Fortunately, in therapy, I have also experienced the "simply were witnessed". In family, my track record is spotty, both for witnessing but not trying to fix, and for being just witnessed. In both directions (as the depressed, or as the witness) historically the family, myself included, has been more either the fixer or even more likely the denier/avoider...giving space but not really witnessing.

It's funny that this addresses the human need to "fix" or "save" others. As a mother, I am guilty of this on too many occasions. And, this is especially relevant when discussing how to be there for someone who suffers from depression. You really have a visceral reaction that screams at you to fix that person. Someone finally told me that trying to fix it, actually doesn't help at all. In fact, it is quite the opposite and makes them feel worse! What an epiphany. Thank you for writing this. It makes sense. Currently, I am trying to figure out what it means to simply witness and how that helps.

As a relational psychotherapist for 15 years, I have seen countless couples. Many (if not most) of them come into sessions with ideas/lists/demands of how I should "fix" the other. I have said the same thing over and over...here's the key, it is called Acceptance. Let's stop fixing.

It's been a lifelong struggle for me to just listen and not feel the need to always give advice and "fix" someone else's problem. I grew up in a family with a mother who truly believed that "mother knows best." And as the youngest of three, it was always a struggle just to be heard or acknowledged. I was always being told what was best for me. When I finally realized that just being listened to, just being heard, was all I really needed, it was transformative. It then became my mission in life to do the same for others.

This is my biggest struggle in coaching, especially when I think I know the answers? and sometimes I might? (one of my jobs was to have the answers so people still expect that of me). I think the line about not being able to stand to be with someone in pain rings true to me... I wonder if my need to fix, is a need to not deal with my own fears around the issue at hand, so a trigger will make my needing to fix stronger...something to work on.

Good points here. I want to fix when I see someone hurting, it feels like I am doing nothing if I don't say anything. So figuring out the right thing to say, or not to say is the challenge in walking with another through a situation. I will continue to work to be a better listener and not have the desire to fix.

I have never really looked at it this way. I am a fixer, always thinking of what to say or do to fix someone else's problem. I rarely just listen. Its good to know this and I will now work to listen more attentively in all situations

Often times, during business discussions, I am trying to assist a co-worker with resolving a problem. It is easy to become distracted (thinking about my response) rather than truly listening.

This hits home for me! I am a fixer, I try to listen but in my mind I'm trying to come up with how to fix the situation. I have a family member that suffers from depression, in fact I was visiting with them last night and they were having a bad day and I was using the same verbiageas in the paragraph above, go outside and walk around, be more active and it will occupy your mind and you will feel better. I see now what I should have done is listen more, ask more questions and be more curious. Let them know I am listening and show compassion on how they are feeling.

Touch, being able to hold someone, but I can't do that now.

I agree with everything what is said, as I have two of my relatives going through this right now for 2 years, denying all human interactions, and completely stagnant. It affects both of their loved ones who live their respective household dearly.  Are there any concrete steps we could take to help this individual or the family? 

 This hit hard. As both someone who has often sat in witness of other's depression or pain and as one who is challenged with depression herself. I meant to respond earlier, but this was a challenging week with being sick with a bad cold and being sick about all that is happening in the US with the new President. I can tell you from personal experience that what I want the most is simply to be valued and heard and loved. No one needs to "fix" me, nor can they. I am made the way I am and it is OK. The same goes for me witnessing for others, I cannot, nor should I try to fix anyone. What I can do is simply be present in love and compassion. Seeing someone you love in pain can be quite difficult, and yet, simply being there is enough. Hugs from my heart to all of yours, Kristin

 Oh, Mary Oliver, where did you get such beautiful words that help us care about, care for others?

 Loving attention and compassionate presence is what we need in good times and bad times. Kind genuine look, empathic understanding,therapeutic loving touch, helping hands and active listening are the core ingredients for helping someone who goes through depression and suffering.We all need such seeing, hearing, witnessing  and companioning when go through a downward turn in our journey of life. Advising done with all good intentions is counterproductive. This writing reminds of a poem I had learned when I was in a high school.It is in Hindi: Ghayal ki gata ghayal jane' aur na jane' koi- A wounded heart knows the pain of the other wounded heart and none other. Yes. We need someone to walk with us as a compassionate companion when our heart aches and when we feel down. Reading this writing reminds of me a moving experience I had with a 5 years old girl sobbing and sitting by herself. I was heading towards my lunch. When I saw her crying, I paused and stood... [View Full Comment]

 Loving attention and compassionate presence is what we need in good times and bad times. Kind genuine look, empathic understanding,therapeutic loving touch, helping hands and active listening are the core ingredients for helping someone who goes through depression and suffering.We all need such seeing, hearing, witnessing  and companioning when go through a downward turn in our journey of life. Advising done with all good intentions is counterproductive.

This writing reminds of a poem I had learned when I was in a high school.It is in Hindi: Ghayal ki gata ghayal jane' aur na jane' koi- A wounded heart knows the pain of the other wounded heart and none other. Yes. We need someone to walk with us as a compassionate companion when our heart aches and when we feel down.

Reading this writing reminds of me a moving experience I had with a 5 years old girl sobbing and sitting by herself. I was heading towards my lunch. When I saw her crying, I paused and stood beside her. I  looked at her and put my hand on her shoulder. She felt my compassionate and caring presence. Her lips were dry. I brought water for her to drink.She seemed to calm down a little.I asked her what made her cry. " I miss my mom. She is flying to Colorado for two weeks for her work and I won't see her for two weeks.." Sitting beside her, holding her hands, listening to her and feeling her sadness was good enough for her to be herself. I asked her if she could face time her mom on her smart phone.There was a soft smile on her face and I left  holding this little girl in my heart.

May we extend our loving hand and be connected with someone going though emotional suffering! It is by giving we receive!

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 i think this is very true. i have witnessed it with my self. additionally, i my friends have been depressed a number of times; but in most cases, all they want to know is that someone is beside them, doing nothing but simply listening.
it's powerful!
thank you!

It is so tempting for us to advise our near and dear ones when they are suffering. We want to get them out of it quickly. I also used to give advise to people when they go through such depression/pain but didn't understand why they are not able to get it and come out from it. Gradually, I understood that, they don't want advise, they just want someone to listen to them and understand what they are going through. One can only come out from such suffering or pain if he/she decides to come out from it. As the proverb says 'God also can't help you if you don't help yourself'. So, only thing we can do is 'Be with them, take care of them and actively listen to them'. that will heal the person and they will find their own way to come out from it. And as David said right combination of witnessing and skillful intervention can help them to find answers within themselves!

 Oftentimes, giving/receiving a hug, is more powerful than words, I have found.

 I happen to be one of those people who others like to bare their souls to...I don't know why but you know what I mean. This has happened to me since forever...even when young. I learned through the years, and there are many, that people really just want you to listen to them. The author of this article is right! I don't ask question; I just give the occasional "hmmmm" or "well" or "ohhhh". Only if they exactly say..."what do you think I should do?" Do I ever attempt to advise. And then nothing too specific...oh, there have been times when someone was in great need but then I would direct them to someone much more qualified to help than I! 

 I spent a concentrated period of time in therapy with a psychiatrist who was firm about not giving me advice or answers, just the occasional question. It was frustrating--sometimes one just wants answers. But I came to understand that he was giving me a gift: the continual affirmation that I had the answers within me, that only I could know what I needed, and that his careful listening helped me listen to myself. So hard to do, but so affirming at a time when I felt like a mess.

 No advice but only sympathy and empathy with head,heart and soul.

 Our gift in the form of personal presence and attention,....... having the patience to allow the person to do anything which he/she is capable of doing, not trying to help, being available, not advising, .....and active listening. A friend highly qualified, 65 years in the social work field, being incapacitated after a fall at the age of 86, shifted to a home for people who cannot look after themselves, with all her complaints,  wrote her autobiography over a three year period, which was published by her Alma Mater, which honored her by making her a Hon Professor at the age of 91. Recently passed away aged 93. Was a period of transformation for me.

 My soul's connection to God!  Jesus stayed rooted by aligning his soul with His Father.  I think I will do the same.  In the end, He is the only One Who really matters.  The people in darkness have seen a great Light .... The word of our Lord ....

 I think of things like "the nature cure" ie "Why don't you go outside and enjoy the sunshine?" and "self-image sprucing" ie "Why so down on yourself?  You've helped so many people?" as friendly well-intentioned advice and encouragement that  typically are just pablum, minimally nourishing or helpful.  Witnessing as being fully with the other, present, attentive and actively listening, is important for the soul, providing the space to become.  We are born, heal, evolve, grow, transform from inside out.  No one does it to us or for us.  We have the resources within, and witnessing can support and allow the process.  Sometimes witnessing is more than enough, and sometimes additional skillful intervention is very helpful or necessary.  I've seen both situations.  What helps me stay rooted in being a witness in the face of intense suffering is knowing that witnessing in and of itself is powerful medicine, is nurturing and healing, and if m... [View Full Comment]

 I think of things like "the nature cure" ie "Why don't you go outside and enjoy the sunshine?" and "self-image sprucing" ie "Why so down on yourself?  You've helped so many people?" as friendly well-intentioned advice and encouragement that  typically are just pablum, minimally nourishing or helpful.  Witnessing as being fully with the other, present, attentive and actively listening, is important for the soul, providing the space to become.  We are born, heal, evolve, grow, transform from inside out.  No one does it to us or for us.  We have the resources within, and witnessing can support and allow the process.  Sometimes witnessing is more than enough, and sometimes additional skillful intervention is very helpful or necessary.  I've seen both situations.  What helps me stay rooted in being a witness in the face of intense suffering is knowing that witnessing in and of itself is powerful medicine, is nurturing and healing, and if more is needed, witnessing can be the container in which additional skillful intervention is tolerable and successful.  Witnessing and the right intervention can be a valuable combination.

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 Yes, I like this.  I witnessed a lady ranting in a care home tonight, and I was aware of the beauty and caring of those around her who just let her rant, let her clear her demons (is what it seemed like to me).